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Even More on Defining Hellenismos

I have to make a public apology to Mano Madytinos. I, as many did who debate what is and is not authentically Hellenismos here in the English speaking world, misinterpreted some of the statement’s Mano made over the last few months.

His blogs are here and here.

As many did, I took his message of ‘renounce no one’ and Hellenic pluralism to mean we must  accept Wiccans, Neodruids, Ceremonial Magicians, and other Neopagans, New Agers, Esoterics and Occultists as part of the Hellenic religion if they claim to be. I was wrong.

I sought clarification of his statements, and now understand what he has been talking about.  It was something I thought we were all aware of, but he takes some of it one step further. He’s not wrong.

A Hellene is any who is of Greek bloodline, is enmeshed and participate in the greater Hellenic culture, or practices the Hellenic religion. The words Hellenic and Hellenismos have a similar multi-use meaning. I think we all know that.

This is what some of us didn’t get from what Mano wrote:  The correct use of the phrase like ‘Hellenic Wiccan’ is a Wiccan who is Greek, and that label says nothing about any connection to the Hellenic religion, or even that they worship the Hellenic Gods. It is like saying Greek American or Irish Catholic. In fact, any statement that there was a practice called ‘Hellenic Wicca’ connected to the Hellenic religion would be false. He even states, “There is no and can never be such a thing as a Hellenic Wicca.

This idea would expand to the other neo-religions as well. A ‘Hellenic Druid’ only properly refers to a NeoDruid who is of Greek heritage, and cannot be used to imply an authentic link between the Hellenic religion and NeoDruidism.  Moreover, he goes one step father and state that a Greek who does this, “is someone who has denied the religion of their forefathers in favor of a foreign religion.

I must reiterate my apology to Mano. I thought he was being disingenuous, and playing both sides of this issue… giving ammunition to the Neopagans, New Agers, Esoterics, Occultists and others to defend themselves as authentic practitioners of the Hellenic religion in his blogs, while denouncing them on the YSEE forum. In my defense, I was not the only one, but that does not change the facts of the matter. I was wrong.

Mano clearly states, “If people should choose to identify as Wiccan, Neo-Pagan, New Age, Occult, etc, they could not be considered a part of authentic Hellenic religion because it can be proved that Wiccan, Neo-Pagan, New Age and Occult, etc practices were not the means by which the ancients worshiped the Gods. Such claims could be disputed easily.

Devotees of Neopaganism, Esotericism, the New Age, Occultism and various other forms of modern mysticism and/or ritualism who try to claim the Hellenic religion are exploiters of the Hellenic religion.

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3 Responses to “Even More on Defining Hellenismos”


  1. Kullervo
    on Mar 24th, 2010
    @ 7:29 pm

    I have a lot of respect for someone who can make an apology, especially a public one.


  2. Kharis
    on Aug 13th, 2010
    @ 4:23 am

    I think I see a correlation between this argument and what happens in many cultural conversations I’ve been forced to have in mixed company. For example, I’ve had Caucasians tell me that they’re “more black” than I am, primarily because they listen to Hip Hop, or watch BET, or speak English with a dialect I do not, or are even married to/involved with someone of my race. When I was younger, it would rankle me IMMENSELY. In my mind it trivialized who I am, my history, the struggles of my people, into simplistic archetypes within pop culture that are, at times, highly offensive.

    On the flip side, as I’ve aged, I’ve realized that many aren’t trying to be offensive, they just want a connection to a “culture” they feel a connection to, something they “vibe with” and with that comes the realization that it just so happens that they have chosen the aspects of my culture and race that I don’t necessarily find…to be the best.

    As our world globalizes everyone is seeking some identity, a definitive label they can place on themselves to give them a sense of “being” and sometimes that sense of being doesn’t go with what WE think they should be. There comes a time when we have to realize what is useful and what is ego. I’ve been ruled by ego enough and I tend to think that many who get involved in these debates aren’t speaking from humility or a seeking of peace.

    But that’s just me and everyone’s mileage will vary. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter.


  3. Marcel
    on May 16th, 2011
    @ 4:10 pm

    I sympathize a lot with Kharis.
    I often feel the same way when it comes to my heritage.
    Being Swedish (as in born and living in Sweden) i sometimes get the same feeling when heathens speak of “our folkways” or when Americans refer to themselves as “Swedish,Irish” or some other ethnicity (whats wrong with being an American with Swedish heritage rather than “Swedish”?).

    When a version of my culture that feels like cut from a cartoon is presented together with mangled phrases in “my language”….

    The search for cultural identety and connection is fine i my eyes.
    Hijacking and reshaping a culture , however, is not.

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